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Board index => Classic, Medieval, Vedic => Topic started by: Zagata on June 08, 2021, 01:25:19 PM

Title: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: Zagata on June 08, 2021, 01:25:19 PM
Greetings,

I found out just yesterday about your great astrological software. I installed it and am amazed with the so many traditional astrological calculations it offers. And it is free - thank you!

I have a request. Could you please program and add the Krishnamurti table to the Vedic module? It divides the Zodiac into 249 parts, ruled by each of the 9 planets in Indian Astrology. It is used for extracting specific information from the chart, such as telling why twins can have major differences in their lives. If you are interested, I can provide a screenshot of the table taken from an example chart.

This KP significators table can also be used for sports investing, which is something I am also interested in. If Planetdance can calculate and display the strength in points of the lord of the Asc vs the strength in points of the lord of the Dsc, that would be fantastic. Calculations are easy to do, but it would save a lot of the time over the long run. I can make a table and show you what I mean. This is based on American astrologer Simon's Chokoisky's book Gambler's Dharma - Sports Betting with Vedic Astrology. Given that Planetdance offers a Vedic module with the needed D9 chart, I am sure that other astrologers would appreciate this as well since currently no paid professional software that I know of provides this calculation.

Thank you for your consideration.  :)
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: ABer on June 08, 2021, 06:00:02 PM
Hi Zagata - thanks for getting in touch. I'm pleased that you are happy with the software. It's good to have your feedback. I'm happy to look at your requests. Please put more details in this listing and I will look at coding this for you in the Vedic module. I like to put features in that aren't found elsewhere - it makes the software unique.

Best wishes. Ed
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: ABer on June 08, 2021, 08:23:10 PM
Hi Zagata - is this the sort of thing you are looking for? Ed
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: Zagata on June 09, 2021, 12:05:47 AM
Hi Ed,

Thank you for considering my request. Yes, the table you have attached is very similar.

Let me show you what I specifically mean by using an example chart:

1) This is a Krishnamurti table that is found in many places on the Internet:

http://kpastrology.astrosage.com/reference-tables/sign-star-and-sub-table (http://kpastrology.astrosage.com/reference-tables/sign-star-and-sub-table)

I have compared the table with the one given in Simon Chokoisky's book and they match.

2) I have used and attached the Turkey vs Italy football match of the Euro Championship that will be played on 11th of June 2011 at 9.00 pm at the Olimpico Stadium in Rome, Italy (12E 27, 41N56, GMT+2). Lahiri ayanamsha is used and Placidus houses. Asc 1.13.16 Sag, MC 25.07.03 Vir, Moon 11.40.54 Gem.

3) I have attached the Krishnamurti sublords table for this match. Only the 9 traditional planets in Vedic Astrology are used here.

4) I have attached the rules given by Simon in his book on how to allot points to significators.

5) And finally, I have manually calculated the points of only the significators we are interested in for (sports) prediction: 1st sublord (Venus) vs 7th sublord (Mercury). Only the 9 traditional planets in Vedic Astrology are used here. Sublord 1 gets +6 points, Sublord 7 gets - 4 points. The total result is a 10 point difference to the favourite (Italy in this case), written at +10. This is the most important part and one I am sincerely hoping you will program.

If the chart had shown -5 for the favorite and +4 for the underdog, there would have been a 9 point difference and since it is for the underdog, we write it as - 9. The reason is the points of the favourite are written as + and of the underdog as -.

If there is anything that is not clear by my post, please ask and I will explain.

Best regards,
Zagata

Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: ABer on June 09, 2021, 06:37:00 AM
Hi there - thanks Zagata - I will take a look at this for you. The main challenge is that sign, star and sublord table - is there any pattern to the division of the nakshatras? It looks quite random to me. Best wishes. Ed
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: Zagata on June 09, 2021, 12:20:12 PM
Hi Ed,

I believe it would help if you think of the Krishnamurti sublords table as the table of Egyptian bounds. As to the rationale of the Krishnamurti sublords table, each of the 9 planets in Vedic Astrology is assigned to each of the 27 nakshatras as a "star lord" in the following sequence:

Ketu, Venus, Sun, Moon, Mars, Rahu, Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury.

The cycle repeats itself 3 times to cover all the 27 nakshatras. The star lord of each nakshatra determines the planetary period known as Vimshottari Dasha. As Simon explains, Krishnamurti's genius was taking the dasha-bhukti (main lord and secondary planetary period lord) division of time and and turning it into a division of space, but instead of calling them bhuktis, he called them sublords (which are divisions of space).

Every nakshatra has star a lord for the whole nakshatra and a sublord for the division of the nakshatra. Each sublord is proportional to its length to its span in the Vimshottari Dasha system:

Ketu 7 years, Venus 20 years, Sun 6 years, Moon 10 years, Mars 7 years, Rahu 18 years, Jupiter 16 years, Saturn 19 years, Mercury 17 years.

The star lord of every nakshatra is always its first sublord as well.  So there is a good rationale for this division. It is more rational than the one for the Egyptian bounds.  :)

I forgot to give the table of how Simon Chokoisky divides the houses into positive and negative. I have attached it.

Let me explain how I calculated the values of the sublord of the 1st house vs the sublord of the 7th house in the Turkey vs Italy football match. The 1st house is always the favourite (shown by the odds) and the 7th house always shows the underdog. The table from my previous post shows that the sublord of the 1st house is Venus, because the Krishnamurti sublords table shows so (Venus rules the space between 0.46.40 and 03.00.00 Sag). Mercury is the 7th sublord according to the table (it rules the space from 0 to 01.53.20 Gem).

All we have to do is compare the strength of the sublord of the 1st vs the sublord of the 7th house. Using the Krishnamurti-Chokoisky sublord 1 vs sublord 7 table for Turkey vs Italy and the table I have attached here that shows the values of the houses:

We see that Venus is the house lord of the 6th and 11th houses. This adds +1 and +4 (because there are no other planets in the house) points to it from Column A. 
Checking Column B, we see that Venus is not related there, so we cannot add or subtract points.
Checking Column C we see that Venus is in the 7th, so we subtract - 3 points from its score. 
Checking Column D we see that Venus is related to the 6th house, in the sense that it is in a Nakshatra ruled by the planets in the 6th Placidus house (no 5 degree rule) - Rahu, Mercury, Sun. Venus is at 17 Gem, or Ardra Nakshatra ruled by Rahu (from 6.40 to 20 Gem). Thus it gets +4 points.

Putting it together, Venus has 5 points from Column A, 0 from Column B, -3 from Column C and +4 from Column D = +6 points to Venus, sublord 1.

As for sublord 7 Mercury, we see that Mercury is the house lord of the 7th and 10th houses. This gives -1 and +4 (because there are no other planets in the house) points to it from Column A. 
Checking Column B, we see that Mercury is related to the 5th and the 12th house, which means we subtract -4 for the 5th (only planets in Columns A and B) and -2 points for the 12th.
Checking Column C we see that Mercury is in the 6th house, so we add +3 points to its score. 
Checking Column D we see that Mercury is related to the 7th house, in the sense that it is in a Nakshatra ruled by the planets in the 7th Placidus house (no 5 degree rule) - Moon, Venus, Mars. Mercury is at 25 Tau, or Mrigashirsha Nakshatra ruled by Mars (from 23.20 Tau to 6.40 Gem). Thus it gets -4 points to its score.

Putting it together, Mercury has +3 points from Column A, -6 from Column B, +3 from Column C and -4 from Column D = -4 points to Mercury, sublord 7.

Summary: sublord of the 1st house = +6 vs sublord of the 7th house = -4 = +10 points to the favourite

It took me a while to write the calculation down, but in practice it is way quicker. Once the Krishnamurti sublords table is added and the values of the houses are input, the rest is dividing and subtracting.

Best regards,
Zagata
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: ABer on June 09, 2021, 12:57:25 PM
Hi Zagata - thanks for this helpful reply. The proportional division of the nakshatra makes the coding easing! Hopefully I will have this module out by the end of the weekend. Thanks for the request. I've wanted to include some sports astrology in Planetdance.

We will see if Italy wins on Friday! You have a good chance to test this method with the Euro Championships starting soon. Perhaps you would be able to start a thread about your predictions for the results.

By the way, I will move this thread to the vedic sub-board now.

Best wishes. Ed
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: Jean on June 09, 2021, 01:00:46 PM
i just hope the dutch are defeated soon, whole streets are colored with orange flags and the like here, i'm not going there for awhile.  :-\
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: ABer on June 09, 2021, 01:03:09 PM
Hi Jean - I am keen to see Zagata's methods in action. Let's hope the Dutch predictions favour an early exit so that you can get some peace and quite. Ed
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: ABer on June 09, 2021, 06:54:35 PM
Hi Zagata - here are the sublord divisions. Does this look right to you.

Here is the code too!

r1 = 0;
 
  i = 0; for (i < 27){
    j = 0; for (j < 9){
      r = 360 / 27 * (dashaYears[(i + j) % 9] / 120);
      r1 += r;
      putrealnumber(300 + j * 80, 10 + i * 20, r1, 2);
      if (j = 0){
         if (nakRuler[i % 9] > -1)
            putplanet(270, 10 + i * 20, nakRuler[i % 9]);
         else
             objectsymbol(270, 10 + i * 20, 3);}
      if (j % 9 != 0){
         if (nakRuler[(i + j) % 9] > -1)
            putplanet(270 + j * 80, 10 + i * 20, nakRuler[(i + j) % 9]);
         else
             objectsymbol(270 + j * 80, 10 + i * 20, 3);}}}

Ed
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: Zagata on June 09, 2021, 07:03:55 PM
Hi Ed,

I was just composing a message. I will later check your sublords table and reply. Here is my message:

Thank you very much, Ed. I will look forward to testing it out.

As for whether Italy will win against Turkey, this particular calculation definitely suggests so. Having said, it is very important to keep in mind that the sublord table is just one of about 8 elements that one needs to take into account and compare.

Jean, the method uses an event chart, that is, a chart drawn for the exact start of any match. Because of that, it cannot predict whether a team will advance to the next phase or be eliminated, unless one examines a given team's matches one by one. So, short of a valid horary question or another method of divination, I know of no other way to determine that.

Ed, I am so glad that to hear that you are interested in including some Sports Astrology in Planetdance.

Indeed, I will be testing this method on the Euro and on Copa America, also starting next week. I had not decided whether to create a Sports Astrology section on my website, so the idea of opening a thread here is a good one.  :)

Best regards,
Zagata
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: Jean on June 09, 2021, 07:25:57 PM
Zagata, i was just joking. Good luck with the module.
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: ABer on June 09, 2021, 08:36:10 PM
Hi Zagata - we're on the way! This is the hard bit done.

set(r1, 0);
 
  putstring(10, 10, "Hse");
  putstring(40, 10, "Sign");
  putstring(75, 10, "Deg");
  putstring(130, 10, "Lord");
  putstring(170, 10, "Nak");
  putstring(210, 10, "Sub");
 
  i = 0; for (i < 27){
    j = 0; for (j < 9){
      k = 0; for (k < HOUSES){
        r = 360 / 27 * (dashaYears[(i + j) % 9] / 120);
        if (kpHouses[k] > r1 && kpHouses[k] < normalize(r1 + r)){
           putnumber(10, 40 + k * 30, k + 1);
           putsign(40, 40 + k * 30, kpHouses[k] / 30);
           strset(s, "%a", kpHouses[k]);
           putstring(70, 40 + k * 30, s);
           putplanet(130, 40 + k * 30, ruler[kpHouses[k] / 30]);
           n =  kpHouses[k] / 360 * 27;
           if (n % 9 != 0)
              putplanet(170, 40 + k * 30, nakRuler[n % 9]);
           else
               objectsymbol(170, 40 + k * 30, 3);
           if ((i + j) % 9 != 0)
              putplanet(210, 40 + k * 30, nakRuler[(i + j) % 9]);
           else
               objectsymbol(210, 40 + k * 30, 3);}}
        r1 += r;}}

Ed
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: Zagata on June 09, 2021, 09:29:00 PM
I see, Jean. Thank you for the wishes.

Ed, I know nothing about programming, so I can't appreciate the code that you are showing me.  :)

I checked your Krishnamurti sublords table and unfortunately it has errors. While the 9 planets follow each other in that sequence, there are some exceptions to this rule in the table. In the correct table Ketu is skipped, Venus is skipped, Rahu is repeated, etc.

Also, the calculations must include the seconds of arc as we are dealing with she smallest of divisions. For example 0.46.40 Ari would become 0.7730. (Sports) events don't always start at that minute, which could change the sublords.

I have a word format version of the Krishnamurti table link that I quoted earlier. Would you like me to attach it here?

Best regards,
Zagata
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: ABer on June 09, 2021, 10:15:40 PM
Hi - thanks for the feedback. I'll take another look. Ed
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: ABer on June 09, 2021, 11:12:21 PM
HI Zagata - could you take another look at the table above. I think this is right now. Ed
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: Zagata on June 10, 2021, 12:05:03 AM
Hi Ed,

I just checked it. You have joined the repeating sequences of Rahu and the Moon, which threw me off guard at first, but the planetary order checks out in all of them. I did not notice any error in the degrees and minutes positions, though I did not check every single one of them but was focusing on the planetary order. Out of the dozens I checked, all are correct.

Zagata
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: ABer on June 10, 2021, 06:05:45 AM
Thanks Zagata - I puzzled over the same issue, but I think this will work ok. Ed
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: Zagata on June 10, 2021, 11:42:33 AM
My pleasure, Ed.

This is a screenshot from Simon's book and how the Krishnamurti KP significators table looks, as calculated from the current at the time version of Parashara's Light.

For the Sports Astrology table, we won't need the lord and SS, which is why I removed them from the table I constructed in a previous post.

Ed, could you program it so that the table is dynamic, that is, when the user uses the clock in the top part of Planetdance of 1 second, 1 minute, 1 hour, etc, the table also changes/moves forward or backward?

In this way, if a match starts 40-50 seconds later, as they often do, one will be able to immediately notice whether there is a change in the sublords. This is will also be especially useful for tennis, boxing or sports whose starting time is not really fixed: a match has to finish on that same court, there is a warm-up, or even a rain delay, etc. Having this function will allow the user to quickly check the change of sublords - one of the most time-sensitive elements of the whole method.

Zagata
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: ABer on June 10, 2021, 02:26:01 PM
Hi Zagata - the table will be part of the Vedic Astrology module, which stands alone from the main window of PD. What you suggest is possible, but not without a very significant re-write of the Vedic module. I am gradually introducing dynamic content to my scripts, but it's detailed work. In the short term I suggest you cast the match chart in the main PD window, and adjust using the timing buttons there. When you have the final chart, cast the Vedic chart from the main Horoscope menu, and then show the sports astrology table. I'm rather busy at the moment so can't take things further than this at present. It takes a lot of time to code these scripts but I've picked up your request because I'm interested in the idea.

By the way, can you tell me why the table is shown with columns in order D, C, B, A and not A, B, C, D.

Best wishes. Ed
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: Zagata on June 10, 2021, 03:43:34 PM
Hi Ed,

I understand. I did not realize the dynamic function would require so much work. I will use it in the way you make it.  :)

The table is the same, it is simply written from right to left - as the astrological software calculates it according to Krishnamurti. The table I created and attached in an earlier post also writes from right to left. I suggest you leave as it is because I suppose other softwares also show it this way and Vedic/KP Astrology users are accustomed to it. I too have become used to this format.

Best regards,
Zagata
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: ABer on June 10, 2021, 04:17:15 PM
Hi Zagata - thanks for getting back to me. Planetdance is a journey of evolution. Jean has been working on this for forty years! It's absolutely heroic what he has achieved. I think what I am proposing will get you started and then we can look at further developments.

Ed
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: Zagata on June 10, 2021, 04:28:55 PM
Hi Ed,

My my, 40 years! I have to say when I installed Planetdance I could not believe how many features it had. I thought I saw them, but when I opened a module, many more appeared.  Jean, you have done tremendous work!  8)

Indeed Ed, let's take it one thing at a time.

I wanted to ask you as I am a newbie here: where in the forum to open a thread about predictions for the Euro football championships?

Zagata
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: Jean on June 10, 2021, 05:38:28 PM
thanks zagata, this started in 1984, and because i was not very proficient in astronomy, and also because i know astrology is such a vast area, i wrote a scripting language with the idea that others, more proficient, could help me out, and quickly develop additional functionality. A few years ago this was picked up by Ed and it has completely changed my software, i even lost oversight completely, i'm not a classicical astrologer myself. But i've reached my goal, there are multiple people contributing and the amount of scripts today is 180.
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: ABer on June 10, 2021, 06:11:15 PM
Hi Zagata - I hope Jean doesn't mind but I created another board called Planetdance in Action! - a place for everyone to showcase how they use the software. This might be a good place for your thread. Ed
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: Zagata on June 10, 2021, 07:53:50 PM
That is great, Jean. I am glad that others with the necessary skills have come up and further developed your software over the years. I am a classical astrologer myself, but I really like that you have also included the trans-Saturnian planets and some asteroids. I don't use any of them in my horary, electional or natal practice, but they do have a place in the Sports Astrology as I will show.

Sure Ed, if Jean does not mind, I will open the Euro football thread in the Planetdance in Action board. I will do so tomorrow.

Jean, if that board is not ok, just tell me where to open the thread.

Zagata
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: Jean on June 10, 2021, 08:14:03 PM
I think this one, classic, mediaval, vedic is most appropiate for this KP technique.
Who would have thought, a thread about football on my board, my software sure has gone where i thought it never would :)
Good luck!

Edit: I see Ed has opened a dedicated board, fine by me!
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: ABer on June 10, 2021, 08:28:12 PM
Hi Zagata - I've added a wheel with Placidus cusps. Ed
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: ABer on June 10, 2021, 09:30:56 PM
Hi Zagata - Jean's given the OK to use the new board. I'm looking forward to your posts. Ed
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: Zagata on June 10, 2021, 10:51:02 PM
Thank you, Jean. In fact, I would prefer tennis, or another sports with two outcomes, but these don't have reliable starting times. Your software will be witness to a marriage between Indian and Ancient Astrology  :)

Ed, I will open the thread tomorrow. Thanks for the wheel, but I will be using the version I uploaded earlier, as one must see the cusps.

Zagata
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: ABer on June 12, 2021, 08:32:01 AM
Hi Zagata - I have the table correct for the Italy-Turkey match. See screenshot. The scoring is a bit of a mystery to me. Could you have another go at explaining it. Thanks. Ed
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: Zagata on June 12, 2021, 06:46:39 PM
Hi Ed,

The table looks nice and easy on the eyes.  :)

Of course I will give another example of how the scoring is calculated. It is the most important part after all. Earlier in this topic, I calculated sublord 1 Venus vs sublord 7 Mercury.

For this example, I will calculate sublord 5 - Jupiter. He is sublord 5 because the 5th Placidus house cusp falls at 20.59 Ari, which the Krishnamurti table shows is ruled by Jupiter (from 20.06.40 to 21.53.20 Aries). I have attached again Simon's table for how the scoring points are assigned and the nature of the houses for (sports) prediction.

The Houses

Positive houses: 1, 3, 6, 10, 11

Negative houses: 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 12

1/2 positive houses: 2

I remind that Placidus houses are used for this method, not whole signs. And that there is no 5 degree rule. In other words, the 8th cusp is at 9.00 Can and Mars is at 5.59 Can. It is in the 7th house, not the 8th, even though it is in the 8th sign from the Asc and within 5 degress of the next house cusp. Even if Mars had been at 8.59 Can, conj the 8th cusp by 1 minute, Mars would still have been in the 7th house by this method.

Points are assigned according to the table by Simon.

The Columns

I myself always start from column A, then B, C, D.


Column A

We see that Jupiter is the 1st house lord. Because the House 1 is a positive one and because there are no other planets in the house, the house lord gets + 4 points.

If there had been a planet in Column B of the 1st house, then Jupiter/Column A planet would have gotten 2 points and the other planet 4 points.

Likewise for House 4, only it is negative: Jupiter is the only planet related to House 4, so it gets - 4 points.

If there had been a planet in Column C of the 4th house, then Jupiter/Column A planet would have gotten - 1 point and other planet - 3 points.

+4 - 4 = 0 pts


Column B

Jupiter is not related to any of the house related to that column.

0 pts


Column C

Jupiter is not related to any of the houses related to that column. Otherwise it would have gotten + 3 points in the positive houses: 1, 3, 6, 10, 11, and 1/2 points = 1.5 points in house 2.
It would have gotten - 3 points in the negative houses: 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 12

0 pts


Column D

Jupiter is related to the 6th house of this column, that is, Jupiter is in a nakshatra ruled by the planets in the house. Jupiter at 7.54 Aqu is in Shatabhisha ruled by Rahu. Because the 6th house is a positive house, sublord 5 Jupiter gets + 4 points.

+4 pts


Summary:

0+0+0+4 = +4 points for sublord 5 Jupiter.


It is the summary part that is most important and where Planetdance will help users save a lot of time.


Is this example clear, Ed? If not, please ask and I will give another one.

Zagata
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: ABer on June 12, 2021, 07:13:59 PM
Hi Zagata - thanks for the extra information. From a coding point of view this is fiendishly difficult! To many 'ifs and buts' but I will give it a go.

Ed
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: Zagata on June 12, 2021, 08:12:05 PM
Hi Ed,

Thank you. I did not know it would that difficult from a coding point of view. I am sorry.
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: Jean on June 12, 2021, 08:47:34 PM
Well that's what i thought after the first post too, a lot of if's and but's, not something for a quicky.
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: ABer on June 12, 2021, 08:56:31 PM
Hi Zagata - it's not a problem, it will just take longer than I anticipated. Could you send me an email address by private message on the forum. I will send you the beta script, which does the table. It would be worth checking this out on more charts before we go too much further.

Thanks. Ed
Title: Re: Krishnamurti KP significators table
Post by: Zagata on June 12, 2021, 11:27:01 PM
Sure Ed, thank you. I will send it to you right now.