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Board index => Planetdance for windows => Topic started by: Lisha on January 26, 2022, 08:40:55 PM

Title: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: Lisha on January 26, 2022, 08:40:55 PM
Hi, i was wondering if there is an option to be able to progress the Solar return angles? 
I'm wanting to do this as a predictive technique to see when the angles conjunct or oppose a solar return or natal planet.
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: Jean on January 26, 2022, 08:55:39 PM
I'm not sure what you mean by 'progress the Solar return angles'.
And 'when the angles conjunct or oppose a solar return'
What angles?

Btw a solar return of course has the same longitude as the sun. Maybe you can give an example.
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: Lisha on January 26, 2022, 09:26:22 PM
I think its similar to progressing a natal chart (secondary progressions). With regards to predictive techniques, using the Solar return, you can progress the Asc/MC to see when they progress forward during the year to conjunct SR planets.

Is this something that is an option in your software?
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: Jean on January 26, 2022, 09:32:35 PM
Ah you mean Horoscope - Progression - Solar Arc. The penny dropped a bit late again  ;D
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: Lisha on January 26, 2022, 10:16:32 PM
No a solar arc is different as that progresses all the planets forward 1° per year.

Horoscope - return - solar - gives me my solar return chart for the year.  I was looking for an option to be able to progress the solar return Ascendant and midheaven angles throughout the solar return year, to see when they come into contact with planets in the solar return chart.
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: Jean on January 26, 2022, 11:26:16 PM
Maybe do horoscope - list on a solar?
There is also time - tools - lifetime solar returns.
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: volker on January 27, 2022, 07:09:50 AM
If I understand correctly, you want to see when the axes, if they are within the year where the solar is valid, hit planets and activate them.
There are daily progressions with 1 degree per day. Kühr used that with Naibod.
Morin used this for solar horoscopes with 1 degree per Day.
I think this is what you mean ?
However, I have not yet found daily directories in PD.
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: ABer on January 27, 2022, 09:21:39 AM
Hi - there's something along these lines in Medieval Traditional Chart under the Forecasting menu item. Thanks. Ed
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: Lisha on January 27, 2022, 02:01:14 PM
If I understand correctly, you want to see when the axes, if they are within the year where the solar is valid, hit planets and activate them.
There are daily progressions with 1 degree per day. Kühr used that with Naibod.
Morin used this for solar horoscopes with 1 degree per Day.
I think this is what you mean ?
However, I have not yet found daily directories in PD.

Yes this is what i mean!
I'll just have to do it manually, its not like i can't count  ;D
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: Jean on January 27, 2022, 02:07:40 PM
How do the axes from a solar, being a static horoscope, hit planets?
I could understand the opposite, a transit planet hitting the as/mc axes.
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: volker on January 27, 2022, 03:33:17 PM
You take the solar as a basis and instead of directing with 1 degree per year with primary direction you direct with 1 degree per day.

I have tried that this morning times in Astroplus. Create a radix with the data of the solar and then daily direction.
 
If it depends only on AC/MC, does not go then also, roughly seen: solar duplicate - biweel old - and then click on day by day ? ???

Or tinker a transparent aspect disc and put it over the solar and continue rotate degree by degree. i mean that seriously. Is useful for many things.

I have tested for years all possible direction methods and nothing has really convinced me. Sometimes it fits, then again far and wide no release is in view.

Rhythmic releases have disappointed me less. With the solar: 30 days per house, like with Resona.

Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: Jean on January 27, 2022, 03:37:42 PM
solar duplicate - biweel old - and then click on day by day ? ???

Yes i suggested something like this, seems a perfect way to do it.
Or horoscope - list on a solar.
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: volker on January 27, 2022, 04:32:51 PM
Yes, that's quite enough.
Here is a comparison of the accuracy of both methods. See graphs.
I have taken 20.05.1998 as the day. Sheen suffered a stroke after an overdose while using cocaine.
Here it fits this time: MC squares venus in 9 and saturn in 3. Beautiful crash. ;)
Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: Lisha on January 28, 2022, 03:56:45 PM

 
If it depends only on AC/MC, does not go then also, roughly seen: solar duplicate - biweel old - and then click on day by day ? ???



You're a genius that's perfect. Thankyou!
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: Jean on January 28, 2022, 04:42:55 PM
I wanted to reply that you can do that also with the new biwheel but it does not work as it should, will be fixed.
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: volker on January 29, 2022, 07:05:14 AM
Hey Lisha,
I fear your joy was too early.
I just couldn't understand why it should go so easily and tried a few dates again.
I think it's because the signs rise at different speeds and everything is moved forward at the same rate in the direction.
If you can't persuade Jean to write a daily direction module, I think you'll have to tinker.
See graphics.
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: ABer on January 29, 2022, 08:35:57 AM
Hi Volker - the first issue is likely to be the time and location used to calculate the angles. The angles in the PD chart are calculated for the time of the solar return and the place of the solar, which in this case is the same as the birthplace. This would be my preferred option. The other set of data is calculated for a different time and/or a different time zone, or so it looks to me. The angles in this case will, of course, not match the PD angles. Without knowing how the other software makes this calculation its difficult to know how the programmer arrives at the differences. It is likely that the programmer is either moving the MC by true solar arc (the distance the Sun moves on the day in question) or naibod arc (the daily average motion the Sun which is around 59 degrees 8 minutes of arc).

It's worth looking at the small module that Jean wrote: Time-Tools-ASC MC Statistics. This calculates the proportion of time that the MC and ASC spend in each sign for the latitude of the chart. The further north or south one travels the wider the variation in ASC rising times, until towards the poles some degrees and signs don't rise at all. Each degree of the MC culminates at roughly the same rate (with minor variation only).

Ed
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: Jean on January 29, 2022, 08:42:29 AM
Daily direction module? What's the difference with the buttons to advance a day?

I'm quite busy, first thing is fixing the extra biwheel module.
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: ABer on January 29, 2022, 09:08:24 AM
Hi Jean - see my reply above. It's likely to be either true solar arc or naibod arc. Ed
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: volker on January 29, 2022, 09:39:50 AM
Ed, I totally agree with you. You have to know exactly what you want to calculate. It's all very complicated.

Maybe that helps Lisha : If I take daily direction in astroplus with naibod, the results with progression - diurnal in PD are the closest. See grafik.
I get the same headaches from all this stuff that I got dealing with the housing problem years ago.

Is something for people who enjoy mathematics and celestial mechanics.

postscript:

I believe morin used 1 degree RA (right ascension) of medium coeli equal to one day (4min= 1 day) for solar horoscope releases.
However, the difference to the calculation with Naibod is very small for one year.

Diurnal: "For this purpose, a horoscope is created for the time and place of birth, only the date is different. It is that of the desired day.
With this traditional calculation, the daily progress of the horoscope axes (AC; MC) corresponds to the daily progress of the sidereal time."

But that would have to work with the duplicating, right?
The whole thing is just a time zone problem, isn't it?

For Lisha:

In summary, I would recommend:
Create solar then progression-diurnal and date as solar, then BiWeel alt and then click on day by day, month by month.

For everything else you need to ask Jean and Ed.
Nice Weekend.



Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: Jean on January 29, 2022, 02:26:57 PM
- Januari 29
- Fixed problem with File - Synastry - Bi Wheel Extra
Changed the menu, see pic. Horoscope 1, the inner one, (and the right column) can be anything but it won't move when you press the arrows.
Horoscope 2 is same as before.
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: volker on January 31, 2022, 10:43:22 AM
When I use Progession-Symbolic Directions,
in the last item, User value, I could choose any direction progress myself. :)
I can choose a date, but I have no possibility to go correctly forward or backward in time in the calculated radix. :(
Is it possible to change this?
Or could this function be added to the Bi-Tri-Weels, if that is easier ?
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: Jean on January 31, 2022, 10:58:15 AM
I can choose a date, but I have no possibility to go correctly forward or backward in time in the calculated radix. :(
Is it possible to change this?

No, these are independant.
Enhancing the synastry scripts, i don't feel much like it sorry.
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: volker on February 02, 2022, 07:06:50 AM
Quote
Is it possible to change this?
Quote
No, these are independant.

I have one more question of understanding.

A synastry with the birth chart and time switching would only be possible within the module?

Because there are directions on the ecliptic and in the BiWeel progressions by means of right ascension of the MC?

Or is there another reason?
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: Jean on February 02, 2022, 07:51:59 AM
Going back and forth is only possible if there is data to do that, for a plain progression this data is stored within the horoscope but not for things like the symbolic ones, there you just have to calculate a new one.
Title: Re: Progressing Solar return angles?
Post by: Lisha on May 03, 2022, 08:54:32 PM
Hi - there's something along these lines in Medieval Traditional Chart under the Forecasting menu item. Thanks. Ed

I forgot about this thread but just come across it again from using the search engine regarding this same query, as I still have the same dilemma. But after reading through the replies, I've just tried out your suggestion, and I'm sure this should work. I have a prediction for the end of August with this method, so if it works I will update. ;)