Author Topic: Victor of the Chart Houses différences calculations  (Read 584 times)

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Nefgem

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Victor of the Chart Houses différences calculations
« on: May 19, 2021, 05:13:51 PM »
Hi Ed
As I had the same question as a person from Facebook I finally ask you the question here.
Regarding the medieval victor of the chart or « Almuten figuris. »
I have different results on the calculation of houses.
I had read a note from Zoller's calculation from his medieval course mentioning Abraham ibn Ezra and Masha’Allah, but I could not be sure I did not have access to the course itself.
I give you the calculations, which are indeed different from planetdance.
maybe you can tell us more on your calculations which seem similar except for the houses.

calculation method :
Find the essential dignities (and give 5 points to the master per domicile, 4 points to the master by exaltation, 3 points to the master of triplicity, 2 points to the master of terms and 1 point to the master of the decan) for the degrees of the following factors :
- Sun
- moon
- Ascendant
- Fortune's share
- Syzygy
Add 7 points for the master of the day and 6 points for the master of the hour. 3. Add the points to the accidental dignities according to the position in house:
For the planet
in 1st house you add 12 points.
10th house = 11 points
House 7 = 10
House 4 = 9
House 11 = 8
House 5 = 7
House 2 = 6
House 9 = 5
House 8 = 4
House 3 = 3
House 12 = 2
House 6 = 1


thanks Ed
Cordialement Jeremy ( Paris )

ABer

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Re: Victor of the Chart Houses différences calculations
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2021, 06:10:07 PM »
Hi Jeremy - I guess this scheme didn't make much sense to me, especially the relatively low score for H9. This house is elevated and trine the ascendant so I feel it needs to score more.

My scheme is this:

First: 5
Second: 3
Third: 1
Fourth: 4
Fifth: 3
Sixth: -5
Seventh: 4
Eighth: -5
Ninth: 3
Tenth: 5
Eleventh: 4
Twelfth: -5

Broadly speaking, angular houses score 5 (rising) or 4 (setting), the succeedent 11th scores 4, the 2nd and 5th score 3, along with the mutable 9th, the third scores 1, and the difficult houses score -5. To me this seems clearer than the 12-1 scheme. Whenever I checked my method against the traditional method, the Victor was usually the same, but not always. On looking at this again, I might score the 2nd house with 2.

I couldn't recreate the chart for the other guy who posted on FB so I wasn't able to look at why the scores turned out that way.

These points systems are only a guide and it is down to the astrologer to interpret the results. Sometimes the algorithm supports the interpretation, and sometimes it doesn't. Any scoring system will be like this.

I hope that helps. Ed

Nefgem

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Re: Victor of the Chart Houses différences calculations
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2021, 11:36:12 PM »
ok I understand I will try like that to see
the guy who presented his theme used Morinus, but I know that there are also differences in the entries with in particular the phase points of the sun which are not at 0 and different points for the houses, for now I can’t tell you what were the original settings of Morinus. or maybe possible with a newone.
Well the main thing is to understand. 
Cordialement Jeremy ( Paris )

Roberto

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Re: Victor of the Chart Houses différences calculations
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2021, 06:37:09 AM »
Hi Ed
can be added also the Ezra/Zoller method of calculation so we have the same result of other astrology software?

Som note also here https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-61815.html  or here https://pdfcoffee.com/almuten-figuris-calculation-pdf-free.html

ABer

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Re: Victor of the Chart Houses différences calculations
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2021, 07:11:52 AM »
Hi there - I've checked the method I use and in every case the AF was the same as the one calculated using the Zoller method. I did this with about a dozen charts. Can you send me any charts where the AF comes out differently and I will take a look at changing the method.

The example on FB didn't check out because the longitude for the positions of Sun, Moon etc didn't seem to match so I think the guy was comparing two different charts, or his other software gives different planet position output for the same birthdata.

Thanks. Ed


Roberto

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Re: Victor of the Chart Houses différences calculations
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2021, 01:09:58 PM »
Hi Ed, I checked a few charts with different prg and the result was the same.

There is a case where the result seems different PD Mars, Morinus, and Delphi Oracle Jupiter 13/02/1965 02:35 AM Lanciano, Italy (14E23 42N13)

In any case thanks for your hard work to keep this program always at the top.

Roberto

Nefgem

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Re: Victor of the Chart Houses différences calculations
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2021, 01:39:40 PM »
Hi roberto to be accurate can you show us the setting of morinus in option almuten theme
Cordialement Jeremy ( Paris )

Roberto

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Re: Victor of the Chart Houses différences calculations
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2021, 03:35:27 PM »
Hi Jeremy, just ask my friend, that uses Morinus more than me, and changed the parameters, the previous one was from Morinus installation, attached you find the actual parameter and the actual result.

By  the way this page confirm Jupiter  https://af.cpptea.com/astrofox.php?dat=5

Cheers Roberto
« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 03:43:01 PM by Roberto »

Nefgem

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Re: Victor of the Chart Houses différences calculations
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2021, 06:22:32 PM »
hI
I dont understand why you find Mars in Pd as I find Jupiter for
 13/02/1965 02:35 AM Lanciano, Italy (14E23 42N13)
In fact for the moment between Morinus ( with my settings ) an PD , Jupiter win for both

I give you the settings  for Morinus from a guy who noted from Zoller version, Ed shoud know if they are correct and why. But you have différents settings in houses and sun in you Morinus pic

I couldn't tell for the other soft
« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 07:05:39 PM by Nefgem »
Cordialement Jeremy ( Paris )

ABer

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Re: Victor of the Chart Houses différences calculations
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2021, 07:46:09 PM »
Hi there - thanks for the input. Whichever way I calculate the Victor for this chart I get Jupiter in Planetdance. By the way I don't think Morinus calculates the moon correctly according to your output. It looks like you use parallax correction? This alters the Pars Fortuna which could well impact on the scoring.

Ed

Roberto

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Re: Victor of the Chart Houses différences calculations
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2021, 12:09:04 AM »
My Apologies Ed
seems the problem was that I haven't setup Egyptian Bound and Dorothean Triplicities, with them I have Jupiter as result. Was a good learning process. Many thanks for your time.

Cheers  Roberto
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 12:12:00 AM by Roberto »

Nefgem

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Re: Victor of the Chart Houses différences calculations
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2021, 01:21:14 AM »
great thks  :)
Cordialement Jeremy ( Paris )

ABer

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Re: Victor of the Chart Houses différences calculations
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2021, 06:54:17 AM »
Thanks Roberto. I'm glad this has helped. It's always good to have the feedback about the modules.

Best wishes. Ed