Converse Lunar return

[Lisha]

In the past, I've done a converse lunar return chart. I've just gone to use this option but I can't find it, I can't even figure out how I did it in the past.

Does anybody know if this is possible to do and how?

[Jean]

Hi Lisha,
What is a converse lunar return chart? I know converse progressions, but not converse returns.

[ABer]

Hi Lisha - I think you could do this using the Horoscope-List function. See below for a screenshot of lunar returns prior to my birth for 1953. I was born in 1964.

Ed

[Lisha]

Thanks, Aber, I'll try it this way. So if I'm understanding this correctly if I'm born in 1978 and want to look at a December 2018 chart, I would start it from 1938 in the start search box. But then my question is would I select December or do the months go backwards too?

[Jean]

Frankly folks, to me this converse concept seems a bit far fetched anyway. There's also a prenatal pregnancy period which makes a little bit more sense, but years before birth??

[Lisha]

Yes, that's what they are, your prenatal transits. They do seem a tad far-fetched but they do surprisingly show to be very significant.

When I was looking into this in the past, in my notebook I've written down that in Robin Williams's Lunar converse when he died had pluto exactly conjunct the IC square the asc. And the converse asc was square his natal 8h Mars/Uranus. This wasn't shown in his direct lunar chart

[Jean]

Well if you feel you get results..
That pic of List you just posted is empty though..

[ABer]

Hi Lisha - I think I would do the following:

Use Horoscope-Progression-Diurnal Transits to find the converse date you are looking for. This module will calculate the relevant converse date based on the date you enter in the text box.

From the Help:

Converse Diurnal Horoscope (Converse Transits): this option calculates an individual horoscope for converse transits using the chosen date, based on the time and place of birth. The time used is GMT, irrespective of the place of birth. This ensures that the chart is calculated consistently for any day chosen.

The converse transit date is the difference between the chosen date and the birth date, subtracted from the birth date. So, for example, the converse transits for a date 1000 days after the birthdate will be calculated for 1000 days before the birthdate.

The default date of calculation is for today. However users can change the date for any preferred option. The chart is calculated by clicking 'Go' or the Calculate button.

Then use Horoscope-List (see my screenshot) to find the lunar return dates around that date.

Your screenshot seems to be from Time-List. It is a bit confusing but you definitely need the option from Horoscope-List.

I don't think there's a more direct way of doing this.

Ed

[Lisha]

Yes I was aware of this option, so do you think with regards to the converse diurnal ....say I have a lunar return chart for the starting date 3rd of March, and i pulled up that diurnal converse chart for that date. Would that also be valid for looking at it as a lunar return chart?
I hope I'm making sense here 

[ABer]

Hi Lisha - I'm not totally sure what you are trying to achieve. Are you saying you have lunar return for, say, 3 March 2023, and you want to check the converse chart that corresponds to this date. Or do you want to look at the lunar return chart closest to the converse date that corresponds 3 March 2023.

For example in my chart 3/3/2023 corresponds to 20/4/1906 converse using Horoscope-Progression-Diurnal Horoscope. If I go to Horoscope-List and look for lunar returns to my natal lunar degree during 1906 I get screen shot below. In this case it looks like the lunar return of 25/4/1906 is the closest in date, and the one preceding the converse date is 29/3/1906.

On the other hand, if you want the equivalent converse date for the lunar return preceding 3/3/2023, use Horoscope-List to calculate the dates of lunar returns in 2023. Identify the relevant return date, and then use the Diurnal Horoscope to find the equivalent converse date for the chosen lunar return.

Ed

[Lisha]

Thanks Ed. From your helpful reply, I think I've finally cracked the code 

So what I'm going to do is, say I have a lunar return that has a starting date of 4th June 2023, I can then enter the date of 4th June 2023 into the converse diurnal to get the pre-natal date, which would be 12th June 1981. I can then go to horoscope - list to enter the prenatal date of 12th June 1981, which will then give me the nearest pre-natal lunar. to the regular lunar.

I'll then use them both simultaneously when looking at a monthly prediction because really time is not linear.

[ABer]

That sounds good - let us know how you get on. It's certainly a creative use of Planetdance!

Best wishes. Ed

[ABer]

Hi Lisha - I wonder how you are getting on with this. I'm intrigued to find out how this is working out!

Best wishes. Ed

[crema1924]

It is as you say, for conversational letters:
progressions>diurnal horoscope> converse chart. ( with the date of the solar or lunar return).

we edit the city if necessary , and with the hours , minutes and seconds buttons we adjust the degrees , minutes and seconds of the sun.

In the image of the converse solar revolution, Saturn in the ascendant and in conjunction to the natal midheaven.

natal chart Chaplin


solar return


converse chart

[Lisha]

Hi Lisha - I wonder how you are getting on with this. I'm intrigued to find out how this is working out!

Best wishes. Ed

Sorry for the late reply Ed. I think it is working but I don't know how it's working.

I'm getting my lunar return date > i use this date for the diurnal converse > take note of the diurnal converse date > go to Horoscope - List > change location if needed and only have Transit and Radical Moon and conjunction aspect ticked > I then input my diurnal converse date > click GO > and it's the top one that comes up I always select

For example, i came across this post online today so i was testing it out...

"Birth Data September 4th 1984 Kingsville, Texas-11:44 pm
This is during the time I met my ex-fiance, I use it because it's very important to me, and the subject is very narrow, romance, partnering up etc.
My Converse return for September 2002, corresponds to September 4th 1966, Natal Venus is exactly rising, Moon and Neptune are conjunct the nodes, obviously forming an opposition."

Using the birth data, and using the method I've been using, I've got a different date for the September Converse return. But it still seems very apt, and it could even be that my method is more accurate. She met her (now ex) boyfriend in Sept 2002. In my chart, there is Neptune/NN/Mercury all at exact degrees, with Mercury on the midpoint.