Author Topic: Introduction  (Read 1595 times)

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Jairo Amaral

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Introduction
« on: June 25, 2024, 04:43:31 AM »
Hello,

Maybe I'm an unusual guest here. I'm an agnostic and I don't belive in astrology, but I teach history of astronomy in a master's degree, in Brazil. I know the basics of occidental astrology since childhood. I'm interested in ensuring every future master in astronomy know some of it too, because I believe we all have much to loose if this contact is severed. Pretty much every astronomer in medieval or ancient times were also working with astrology.

From my background, I understand how to calculate the ephemerids. But beyond that, I believe this is the place to ask questions. If you don't mind, I'd love to lurk here and make questions here and there.
Jairo C. Amaral

Jean

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2024, 07:18:47 AM »
Unusual indeed but not unwelcome. Myself i'm an absolute noob in astronomy, in fact the software has a script language and one of the reasons for it is that people with more understanding of astronomy can help me out with things.
Greetings from Groningen Netherlands.

Jairo Amaral

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2024, 07:29:22 AM »
Just to give a little more of background (or my lack of), my first contact with astrology was many decades ago with the book "First Steps in Astrology" by Preston Crowmarsh. I also know the Tetrabyblos from Ptolemy, since he was a bottleneck that transmitted most of Ancient Egyptian and Mesopotamian knowledge into Western Astrology. I have little base for the other types of astrology, like Vedic, Arab or Chinese. I'm slowly learning as I use Planetdance.

As for a first question, I looked in the help and I couldn't find out: In Planetdance main screen, there is a table on the upper right, showing planets in different sections, like fire, earth, air and water. But what do the numbers associated with each one mean? Is it a sum of weights?

Thanks in advance.
Jairo C. Amaral

Jean

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2024, 09:37:58 AM »
Yes those are weights, in sign as well as in house. The values can be set in options - settings - extra , on the right Points.
Tip, if you do Help and click Search, you can enter a search term, for instance 'elements', it will search all occasions. The help needs some work though, there are lots of dead links.
Myself i'm not very familiar with astrology history, i am mainly into modern western astro, my favorite writer is Liz Greene, but Ed, who codes most of the classical sections, knows a lot about it.

ps, there are some many modules that have their own weight system.
Greetings from Groningen Netherlands.

Jairo Amaral

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2024, 10:27:49 AM »
Hello again. I have a question that might be sensible. I will try to parse it in the most peaceful way.

I understand there are many different ways to do astrology, depending on the background and culture (e.g. western and Chinese zodiac).

How do they see each other, mostly? Do they consider each other in a honest mistake, or do they believe everyone is doing it right in its own way?
Jairo C. Amaral

Jean

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2024, 11:00:31 AM »
Myself i keep my astro world quite small, i'm not that interested in every new theory or fashion so maybe i'm not the right person to answer this question. I do know that tensions can get high though, lately there was some lecture from someone about tropical vs sidereal zodiac and tensions became so high everyone was talking about it. No it's not a nice peaceful community in this regard, but mostly people are minding their own business.
Greetings from Groningen Netherlands.

Jairo Amaral

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2024, 04:23:53 AM »
Thank you! This is valuable information. I supposed it could be like that, since most areas can be. This will help me in how to approach it.

Another question is what astrologers do when a new celestial body is discovered (either something permanent like a planet, or ephemeral like a comet). How do they determine its properties? Does its officially chosen name influence them? I guess it is done by predicting where it was in the past, comparing with what happened in the world and backengineering it. Do you have any light on this topic?
Jairo C. Amaral

Jean

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2024, 07:44:17 AM »
Good question, but i don't have that much light. We had a lot of controversy with pluto denoted to a mere asteroid, although that has been rectified, it was for many astrologers difficult because in modern astrology pluto is quite powerfull.
I also noted in certain groups a tendency almost like fashion of the day which i find quite disturbing, like 'oh my my [name some very small asteroid] is now conjunct my mars, o what will this day bring', that not what i would call a serious approach. Who makes it all these meanings up is a mystery to me.
I know of one woman who works a lot with so called plutoids and she says she's been given them by some entity.
Myself i'm perfectly happy with my small subset of 10 planets or something and the Jungian tradition.
Greetings from Groningen Netherlands.

ABer

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2024, 08:08:43 AM »
Hi Jairo - this is an interesting question. Astrologers identify the qualities of new planets using a mix of empirical and symbolic means. One of the key methods is by analysing the chart for the discovery of the body. This is generally the moment that the planet is first observed. Astrologers will also look at social and political events occurring at the time of the discovery and correlate these with the chart. The symbolic approach means understanding any mythological associations with the name of the planet. Astrologers will also look at the astronomical and physical properties of the planet (orbit, composition, position in solar system, etc). It's a complex process but a very interesting one. You can find more information in Nicholas Campion's Book of World Horoscopes (2004) Appendix 11. In this appendix Nicholas discusses the horoscopes for the discovery of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto and also the minor planet Chiron.

His summary is: "For me, the significance of these horoscopes (for the disovery of new bodies) is that they symbolise the changes in human perception encouraged by the opening up of our knowledge of the solar system, hence they are poetic maps of the human imagination." (p. 496)

There is a very interesting but rare book by C20 German astrologer Fritz Brunhubner entitled Pluto. It was published in German in 1934 and made available in English translation in 1966 by the American Federation of Astrologers. This is a very instructive look at how astrologers approached the discovery of Pluto in 1930. The method he uses is very typical of the method adopted generally by astrologers to discern the qualities associated with newly discovered planets.

For an interesting review of Brunhubner's book see:

https://www.skyscript.co.uk/rev_pluto.html

For more information on this topic see:

https://www.skyscript.co.uk/uranus.html
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/neptune.html
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/pluto.html

Best wishes. Ed